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What we're up agains in the suburbs.
July 13, 2011
12:13 pm
mammaleigh
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 430
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November 9, 2010
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Front page of our little towns paper today, says that they are going to outlaw the ownership of chickens unless you have at least 5 acres of land, I am sitting on about 1.5 right now…you can face a fine and also a penalty if this is passed. I am going down to the county hall meeting when it comes about next week.

But my neighbors across the road have close to 10 cows and the ones next to them horses…I don't get it!!

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living.  The world owes you nothing.  It was here first."  ~Mark Twain
July 13, 2011
12:51 pm
Ross
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December 14, 2010
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How much land does you neighbor across the road have? Chickens don't take much room. Either follow the money or the new folks in the neighborhood. We have new subdivisions next door to dairy farms. The subdivision people complain about the odor of the farm operations. A local judge told them that they wanted to live in the country and this is what the country smells like. The farm was there when they bought the house and he won't listen to any complaints about farmers and their livestock or their machinery on the roads. He said that the farmers are working for a living and have a right to continue. I would contact the state or county agriculture department for both of these concerns.

July 13, 2011
12:57 pm
Ross
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http://www.davidjhess.org/DetroitCG.pdf

An excellant paper on community gardens in Detroit. I expect that you can find favorable precident for all manner of small scale agriculture in urban settings.

July 13, 2011
12:57 pm
Ruthmarie
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May 5, 2010
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I read about the fellow in British Colombia yesterday after following links to it … what boggles the mind is that it took one complaint from a neighbor who "didn't like the smell of the fresh manure on the plants" quoted from the city.  Wow.  Goes to show how little the neighbor and the city know about growing veggies … nobody puts fresh manure on plants!  Perhaps the smell is from the fellow several houses down from the small urban farm under attack that is keeping cows and horses, maybe, perhaps, hmmmmm?  Nothing quite like the viral nature of the internet to rain embarrassment onto the hubris of city officials.   What is fascinating it once the city starts down an unpopular path is how badly their collective ego won't let it go.

BTW, the Michigan gal's petition has almost made it to 25,000 signatures.  Gotta love it!

July 13, 2011
4:15 pm
kellyb
Mighty Chicken
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June 2, 2010
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My friends live in Northeastern PA.  They have about 36 acres.  There's is the smallest place in the area.  Some folks from NYC moved down the road and built a MacMansion.  They started complaining because the cows smelled and the roosters woke them up too early in the morning.  They ended up suing most of the neighbors in the vicinity.  The MacMansion people lost but the other folks still had to incur legal expenses.  It's happening more and more in our area.  Just south of me is becoming a bedroom community for Baltimore and DC.  To the northeast, NYC.  City people don't like smelly noisy animals.  They're rather just go to the store and buy their steaks on a styrofoam tray.  It's time to speak up and not be pushed around.

July 13, 2011
4:35 pm
Ross
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Kellyb, those folk that got a favorable court ruling can recover the cost of the case both lost time and legal expense. I live 15 miles south of the Mason Dixon line and the farmer rules here. Pollution and nutrient run-off are the primary problems the farmer has to face from the government. We are encouraging buffer zones along all of the water ways, keeping livestock out of the streams and not planting right up to the edge.

July 13, 2011
4:37 pm
Miss Judy
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February 22, 2010
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We'll see what happens this fall when I put three hens in my backyard! No roos, just 3 laying australorps. I already have 3 names picked out…Grace,Lou and Pearl. I am not going to the city council…I'll wait until they come to me. I can always send the girls back to my sons' mini farm in the country.

I already have my square ft. garden…no one has complained. But this is a small "rural"town.

July 13, 2011
9:48 pm
Liz Pike
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June 1, 2011
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Sigs are up to 26k for the Michigan family!

Miss Judy, you could always speak with your immediate neighbors, offer to share some eggs, they'll be the ones to take up for you if there are complaints from other neighbors further down the road.

kellyb, same thing happened near me, an established hog farm (not a corporate factory farm, a family hog farm) was sued by a community of retirees (most of them from north of the mason-dixon ; )) for the smell it produced–farm was here for 50 years prior to the sub-division.  The judge laughed them out of court.  Told 'em that to a farmer, that was the smell of money!  And then the same community went so far as to try to annex the area around the farm so they could then legislate the farm out of business. The state capital got in on that real quick.  Stopped it before that mess could get started.  Poor farming family still had to incur all those legal fees, but at least they got left alone.  

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 14, 2011
5:33 pm
Ross
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July 14, 2011
10:22 pm
Heather B
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Well, it seems like so many people won't be happy until there are no farmers, and then where will they get their food?

 I Wanna Farm Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. – Mark Twain
July 15, 2011
12:13 am
Liz Pike
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June 1, 2011
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HeatherB said:

Well, it seems like so many people won't be happy until there are no farmers, and then where will they get their food?

McDonald's??

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 15, 2011
8:54 am
BuckeyeGirl
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February 10, 2009
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Well, the city of Oak Park dismissed the charges, so they can “review the ordinance”.  In the mean time, they have renewed the charges against the family for having let their dog licenses lapse, (that citation was issued the same day as the garden violation ticket) though the same week they got the ticket about the dogs, Mr or Mrs Bass went down to city hall and got the license thing taken care of, now they have to appear in court anyway?  OK, as long as every other dog owner who's messed up has to do the same I suppose, but really???  

I have my theories about them suddenly reviewing the ordinance, and why they are now pressing the issue about the dog tags even though they can easily check on whether or not the dog licenses are now up to date or not…  still at least they get a reprieve about the garden beds even though the city can easily renew this whole thing with a pen stroke. 

Before I moved back here to the little unincorporated township I live in now, I was a regular attendee at the city council meetings where I lived.  Just complaining isn't enough, it takes time and effort to make sure things don't go off course.  Actually, I think I should find out about our township meetings too now that I think about it.

Located in N.E. Ohio
July 15, 2011
9:43 am
Miss Judy
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February 22, 2010
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BG,

 I know what you mean. I have a tendency to  gripe "someone should do something about that"….never getting off my duff and being that "someone". I think that's how a lot of these city ordinances get passed. Someone brings what they perceive as a problem to the city council…the council without furthur investigation or input from those with a different perception makes a new ordinance. Then we start complaining and pitching fitshissy-fit. If we attended council meetings on a regular basis maybe we could prevent some of those crazy rules and regulations! That would even go for county meetings too…but those regulations usually require a vote…we just need to know what we are voting for. Those zoning laws can be slipped in real slick like!

Now there was a little sermon to myself!laugh

July 15, 2011
9:56 am
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
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June 1, 2011
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Thanks for the update, BuckeyeGirl.  I hope all the exposure might get them some donated legal expertise to fight all this.  Too sad that a nice family is going through something this that is so minor, yet speaks volumes.  Wonder who they ticked off in the neighborhood, someone has an ax to grind…

And Miss Judy, you're right, and I too am guilty as charged! I briefly got involved in county politics after groups of wild dogs kept decimating my chicken flocks.  Helped get animal control more active, but that was very self-serving ; )) 

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 15, 2011
8:36 pm
Ross
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December 14, 2010
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Do they have elections in Oak Park?

July 16, 2011
1:30 pm
Heather B
Mighty Chicken
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April 12, 2010
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I think there's an election coming up next year for mayor; I could be wrong. I don't live in that city.

Joel Salatin mentioned in one of his books (Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal) about reading in the paper that his city was outlawing sawmills on the private property, and how he went down the day of the vote and got it rewritten. The whole ordinance was being written without considering all the facts, out of ignorance really, and thankfully he was there to correct them.

I always used to say you can send a genius to college and suck all the common sense right out of them (not everyone of course), and I see it most in people with power. It's a shame.

 I Wanna Farm Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. – Mark Twain
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