;

Chickens in the Road Forum

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
CITR Liquid Soapers
June 28, 2013
10:47 am
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm really late to this discussion, but I'm wondering if you ever perfected a recipe that didn't use the lye excess.  I make cold process soap and want to make a shampoo.  The trouble with bar shampoo is that it can leave a film that builds up on the hair.  So, they say to rinse with vinegar.  I'd like to get around that at least somewhat.  I read Failor's book, but she concentrates so much on clarity, it lacks information about just making liquid soap that doesn't have to be neutralized.  Since I don't care about clarity, I'd really like to try a liquid soap with coconut, olive oil and castor oil.  I think some of the buildup may be a result of my bar soaps having cocoa butter in there (as well as pH being up around 8 or 8.5).

 

Anyway, checking and hoping for an update on just going with the method using soapcalc and staring it as zero (rather than lye 10 percent).  Anyone else try any shampoos and have good luck with them? 

I do love your tutorial.  Much easier to follow than the book and I already planned on using a crockpot so I'm glad that works (I've used a crockpot in soap making before and it really takes a lot of the pain out.) 

 

Thanks for the tutorial.  It is so awesome!!

 

Maria

 

June 29, 2013
11:21 am
Avatar
Amerayl
Bisbee, AZ
Mighty Chicken
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
February 15, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Maria,

I use the advanced lye calculator at Summer Bee Meadow. There is still a little excess, but not as much. I don't focus on clarity myself anymore. I just like experimenting and seeing what happens so far. I've made a coconut liquid dish soap using Summer Bee and did not neutralize at all and I didn't feel as if it was a harsh soap.

I was going to be experimenting with using a small percentage of NaOH with the KOH to see about making a bubblier shampoo like in Failor's book without having to add the bar soap shreds. But I am going to be moving again. :(

The oils you are wanting to use actually would make a clear soap anyhow. Funny how that is. Cocoa butter could build up in some hair styles. I used shea butter in mine and it was a big mistake for me. I have oily hair to begin with. I've been very preoccupied lately or else I would have tweaked my recipe more.

I hope that helps a little.

June 29, 2013
12:49 pm
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks, that is helpful.  I made the recipe, but I think it had too much water.  I never got a thick/hard paste.  It stayed about mashed potatoes even after 6 hours of cooking.  But it dissolved clear.  I did the dilution and it didn't give me problems (at about 20 percent.)  Then...I tried to add citric acid (to lower pH a bit) and castor oil (to superfat).  I went a little higher than 1 percent with the castor oil and that was a mistake!  But when I tried the shampoo in the morning I thought it wasn't quite as conditioning as I wanted...anyway, next time I'd stick to the 1 percent or under.  I skimmed some fat off the top.

 

The citric acid mostly seemed to form fat globs.  Heating dissipated those somewhat and I skimmed off the rest.  Tested the pH with the strips I have (I know, not necessarily that great) and it stays around 8 to 8.5.   It was 8.5 right after dilution so I don't think the citric acid did much at all (Probably just precipitated out.) 

 

The soap is currently cooling in the crockpot. We'll see if it sets up or does okay.  I did have to add more water because I cooked the paste/water overnight and while it was fine at first, after messing with the citric acid and the castor oil, it started to form a crust.  I diluted and cooked a bit more. 

 

I also added an ounce of glycerin, but it doesn't seem to have done much.  I'm going to wait for it to cool to see what state it stays in. 

 

I don't think I could redo this recipe if I WANTED to, but I have less fear of starting at zero lye and working with it.  I don't care about clarity, but this batch is plenty clear.   I didn't add any fats that I thought might cause buildup, but we shall see what happens when I use it a few times.  It's an nice clear brown/tan color.

 

I think the Failor book focused so much on clarity it made the recipes harder than they have to be.  I also think I could still add some water to mine, but we'll see how it turns out when cool.

 

I must say that cold processed is much easier!!!

June 29, 2013
4:08 pm
Avatar
Amerayl
Bisbee, AZ
Mighty Chicken
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
February 15, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

happy-flowerI'm glad that helped. I like CP myself, but I still love the HP. Liquid soap, I could take it or leave it, but most people around me like the liquid over the pretty bars soaps. *Sigh* LOL, I'm still playing with it myself.

June 29, 2013
5:56 pm
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

happy-flowerI'm glad that helped. I like CP myself, but I still love the HP. Liquid soap, I could take it or leave it, but most people around me like the liquid over the pretty bars soaps. *Sigh* LOL, I'm still playing with it myself.

 

 I really only want liquid soap for shampoo and I'm not sure I can achieve a soap that will not leave a film and won't be too drying. 

 

I know what you mean though.  I have given some soap bars to friends and several tell me, 'Oh, I really only like liquid soap."  

 

I think the cold process soaps are the most moisturizing bars I've ever used.  I love them.  I don't think this liquid soap is going to be as moisturizing, but then, I didn't put in cocoa butter or any other ingredients that I thought might make it "filmy" on the hair!

June 30, 2013
11:16 am
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just in case anyone else is following this thread and still trying things:

 

I wouldn't recommend adding either the castor oil at the end OR the glycerin.  The glycerin didn't thicken the soap at all and between those two ingredients, I lost a lot of nice creamy lather.  Adding oils at the end kind of makes the stuff heavier so the bubbles just don't get going.  It's still usable, but I liked the sample I tried BEFORE the glycerin and castor oil.  I added castor oil at about 1.5 percent (accidentally miscalculated the one percent) and the glycerin was one ounce (for a 20 ounce paste.)  Neither improved the end product. 

 

 

June 30, 2013
3:11 pm
Avatar
Amerayl
Bisbee, AZ
Mighty Chicken
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
February 15, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maria, did you use regular castor oil or the turkey red? Only the turkey red is water soluble because it has been sulfated.

Thanks for the heads up though. I don't like to add anything really extra. Actually I found out through another liquid soap group that it seems like the trend is to superfat the soap up to a 3% discount. I'm gonna try that next.

If you liked the feel of the CP bars, you might like Cream Soap. It is more difficult though and somewhat fussy. I really need to find some time to develop my own recipe so I can post it here for others to try.

It looks like I am going to have to make more laundry soap though. I love making it via the liquid soap way versus shredding bar soap. You don't have to worry about the thickness of the soap and I don't have snot like liquid.

Well I'm off again to soap. I don't want to move with open oil containers again. Soap bars travel so much easier.

June 30, 2013
4:53 pm
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I was thinking that about the laundry soap.  I don't mind doing the bar way, and I then put it in the blender so it stays together, but I do have to melt it in water before using or I can end up with globs in the washer.

 

I didn't use the red.  I thought maybe I was supposed to, but the tutorial didn't mention it had to be that one...

 

I think I ended up scooping most of that off the top, but if not yeah, it probably made the soap lose its lather just by oiling it down. I was disappointed the glycerin though.  Didn't thicken it a bit.

 

Now that it's later in the day, I think my hair is filmy.  I honestly don't think I'll bother with liquid soap unless I can make it into a shampoo that works.  I like the bar soap for everything else.

 

Do you have a laundry soap recipe?  I can see doing one for laundry although I'm not unhappy with the one I do now.  It makes two quarts and lasts forever.  Making it doesn't take the time of LS either.  I was working on the LS for two days.  It was disappointing to have it not really work on my hair.  Of course, I should try a second time and not do the castor oil and glycerin and see if it still films.  Maybe I'll put some vinegar or lemon juice in the stuff I made and see what happens.  I've already lost the lather so...I won't say "how bad can it be?" because we know it can get worse!  Don't worry, I'll do it on a small sample...

June 30, 2013
10:50 pm
Avatar
Amerayl
Bisbee, AZ
Mighty Chicken
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
February 15, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I can understand that. I actually just like using a bar soap as my shampoo. But I think it will take some tweaking to get a liquid shampoo to the way you'd like it.

As far as I know, glycerin really doesn't thicken at all. I am at the point that I really don't care if it is thin. I am going to use thickeners, like HEC and Xanthan Gum and such. Although I do hear of people using just plain salt water to thicken. I think they made a brine (by adding as much salt that would dissolve in one cup of water) and add a little of the brine to the liquid soap. You might want to try that, but it may inhibit lather if you add too much.

Here is my recipe for Liquid Laundry Soap. Now understand I've only made this twice, I'm still playing with the recipe a bit. The first time was so nice and lovely, but I'm not sure what happened with the second one except that I added twice the amount of borax and washing soda. I may have also had a tiny bit of a bar soap added. The last time came out all chunky. I couldn't find my orignal notes and went from memory. Oh well, I'll see if it the third time is the charm.

Liquid Laundry Soap

24 oz of Lard (50%)

24 oz of Coconut oil (50%)

30 oz of Distilled Water

11.6 oz of KOH (potassium hydroxide)

I cook it in my 6qt crockpot. Follow directions for liquid soap paste making. After the cook, I scooped all the past into my largest stainless steel stock pot for dilution.

6 quarts of water for dilution.

I slowly heated the water and soap paste until all the soap paste was dissolved. While still warm, add:

1/2 cup washing soda

1/2 cup borax

1/2 cup Polysorbate 80 (optional, my hubby has some stubborn stains)

2 tbsp Orange Essential Oil (optional)

Mix until all is dissolved. I bottle this in 2 gallon sized bottles. I use 1/4 cup per load usually. I sometimes have to add more.

Last time I used 1 cup borax and washing soda and I didn't like this batch at all. Also, I anchored the EO a little mixing it first with the Polysorbate 80. The scent doesn't last through the dryer though, but that isn't why I used it.

I hope that helps a little. If you try it, let me know how it turns out for you. The stores around me seem not to carry lard anymore, so I'm gonna have to see if I have enough or if I'll be going to a 100% coconut oil laundry soap.

July 1, 2013
1:21 pm
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I find lard now over in the oils section.  But I live in Texas so lard is very easy to find here.  Palm oil, not so much.

 

Adding the lemon clouded the LS to a nice creamy look--and it worked better on my hair! So I did another bit and let husband try it.  He said I must have overdone it.  He didn't like it very well.  That's the trouble wish squirting lemon juice in without measuring.  We'll see what happens tomorrow. 

 

That sounds like a great recipe.  I can believe too much borax doesn't dissolve.  That is what takes heat to dissolve even the stuff you buy at the store in powdered form.  My mother always adds hot water to her powder or she gets clumping.  The whipped stuff I made looks like a great paste but unless I'm washing in hot I just don't think it dissolves all that well.  So I zap it in water in the microwave before using.

 

I like that you use lard in yours as it's a nice cheap ingredient.  The coconut oil is cleansing too, but more expensive around here.  I can get a pound of lard for 3 dollars. 

I won't need laundry soap for probably the rest of the year, but I'll post back if I try this.  I like the idea of a liquid that doesn't require zapping, but then, it's not that big of a deal either.  And boy do I save money on it.  I used to spend 10 dolllars for the store stuff.  It's great to spend more like 5 for the borax and other things and then have soap for a year!

July 2, 2013
1:32 pm
Avatar
Amerayl
Bisbee, AZ
Mighty Chicken
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
February 15, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I like using lard for laundry. As you say, it is a cheap ingredient and cleans so well. Unfortunately, in my stores they have recently taken it out. no So sad.

One day I'm going to get the 50 lbs of tallow from Soapers Choice. It isn't a bad price and I found I really like it over the lard. But that day is not today.

July 2, 2013
2:36 pm
Avatar
bearmountainbooks
Texas
Banty
Members
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
June 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I hear you.  There are lots of ingredients I'd rush out and buy, but I have enough soap and lotion for now.   Time to use up what I have and wait for the time to be right!

October 4, 2014
9:27 pm
Avatar
bbrooksdavis
Hatchling
Chickens
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
October 4, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I love your tutorial.  For the first time I've had my questions answered and someone explained the steps, the tools and the process.  I'm so excited to gather my stuff up and get started.  

Just one question though.  What is sequestering?butterfly

February 8, 2017
1:26 am
Avatar
ethan lee
australia
Hatchling
Chickens
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
February 1, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

nice

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 183

Currently Online:
32 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Leahld22: 2738

Joelle: 2532

Ross: 2426

MaryB: 1783

JeannieB: 1500

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 15

Members: 7449

Moderators: 3

Admins: 4

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 14

Topics: 3490

Posts: 67013

Newest Members:

TSE, DawnS, Sakkara, EllieAnn, Muffie, Karen11

Moderators: Pete: 8497, wvhomecanner: 3159, Flatlander: 1643

Administrators: Suzanne McMinn: 7368, emiline220: 16, CindyP: 7942, BuckeyeGirl: 4921





Sign up for the Chickens in the Road Newsletter


Sections

  1. The Farmhouse Blog
  2. The Chickens in the Road Forum
  3. Farm Bell Recipes

Latest Posts on the Farmhouse Blog:

Daily Farm







If you would like to help support the overhead costs of this website, you may donate. Thank you!

Forum Buzz

Site Info

Privacy Policy, Disclosure, Disclaimer, and Terms of Use

Contact