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Fall garden
July 17, 2011
12:13 pm
kdubbs
Big Chicken
Forum Posts: 48
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March 2, 2011
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Hi, all!  Thinking of trying some end of summer/fall plantings this year for the first time, and I'm looking for advice!  I was thinking first off of cabbage (want to try making my own kraut this year), but then I thought I'd ask you folks for your suggestions.  I'm in northern PA (Zone 5), but we always tell people that our property (at the base of the mountains) has its own little cold micro-climate.  Any thoughts on when to start planting, and suggestions for what should do well in the fall?

Thanks!

Kirsten

July 17, 2011
1:13 pm
BuckeyeGirl
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February 10, 2009
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So many people look at the end of their tomatoes as the end of the whole garden, but there are so many garden veggies that absolutely love the chill of fall! 

I started to type a list of things, but realized nothing I could say would be better than this article.  http://www.motherearthnews.com…..1zmat.aspx

(I have the magazine but knew it would be on line too!)

Pay close attention to the part about picking certain varieties that will do better than others, but be careful not to get too carried away!  It’s easy to do.  I absolutely recommend at least a small plot of lettuce and spinach which you can keep covered and harvest for fresh salad long into the fall!

The best cover system I ever saw was heavy concrete rebar mesh which was formed into an arch by the hubby by bending it over a log, then stored when not needed behind the shed.  (it lasted for YEARS!)  It was dragged out in the spring and covered with plastic for seed germination, stored over summer, then dragged out again and covered with frost cloth for fall crops, and a bit with plastic then too, to make a mini hothouse for salad crops even after snow.  It was clumsy, bulky, heavy and annoying, probably fairly expensive at first but since it lasted for years and years, not such a bad thing!!!

Located in N.E. Ohio
July 17, 2011
1:43 pm
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
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June 1, 2011
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In addition to the good advice BuckeyeGirl gave, the trick to successful fall planting is that you want the plants to have completed most of their growing before the weather turns cold.  Winter acts as a sort of refrigerator, forcing plants to go dormant.  Plants that are immature before cold weather will generally remain immature over the winter.  

There are lots of crops that do well even below freezing, including some lettuces. For many hardiness zones, root crops can be left in the ground for harvesting all winter.  Brussel Sprouts & broccoli can also even be left in the ground, and harvested with snow on the ground. The best way to learn is to experiment, and if you have an extension agent handy, they're the people to ask.  

Winter Density romaine, mache, & deer tongue performed the best as lettuces both down here on the coast in NC and up in the mtns in Hillsville. Down here in NC, I even had arugula until temps hit 15 degrees. Up in Hillsville we keep cabbage in the garden until Jan/Feb.

Once I started using cold frames and season extension in my gardens it eliminated some of the canning & freezing I used to do (much easier to eat in season than go through all that trouble to put up stuff). 

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 17, 2011
7:32 pm
kdubbs
Big Chicken
Forum Posts: 48
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March 2, 2011
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Hee hee, Liz… I am an Extension agent!  Not the kind you're suggesting I consult, though–I'm a 4-H person.  We're a little short-staffed in my state's Extension service and about to get shorter due to budget cuts.  The person in my neck of the woods who does home hort is all tied up with a Master Gardener potting shed project at the fairgrounds right now, so I thought I'd ask you folks!  I do have a cold frame I used this spring for the first time, and it would handle low-growing crops.  I don't have a mini high-tunnel, although that's a great idea!  I did some reading on four-season harvesting, and it's a cool concept.  I'm looking to start slowly and get some "post-tomato" crops in this year.  I actually get all warm and fuzzy over my jars of canned stuff… don't ask me why.  Canning is one of those things I derive satisfaction from, so I'm not looking to eliminate that.  However, I would like to feel that I'm making better use of my available growing season!

July 18, 2011
7:28 am
aprilejoi
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 328
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January 9, 2011
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Oh Liz! What you say  makes so much sense to this garden newbie! I had trouble last fall and this spring with plants that just sdin't take off like the seed packet said. I am experimenting with shade clothes to extend my salad garden and that is working out well. But I will definately will get my fall lettuce going now so when it cools off I can harvest, not struggle to germinate.

     BTW- Anyone have any thoughts why my spring cabbages are not setting heads? They are otherwise healthy, seed packet said early but …no heads!

July 18, 2011
7:59 am
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
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June 1, 2011
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kdubbs said:

Hee hee, Liz… I am an Extension agent! 

 

That is too funny, kdubbs!!  I never know if people have access to ext agents due to those budget cuts.  Here in NC, they are still in each county though they are looking into compacting the extension service into regions like some other states have already done, which I think is sad.  Up in VA, in the regional setup, it's harder to get access to agents.  I ended up having to contact the fellow who used to be local to us up there through Facebook!   

 

Not the kind you're suggesting I consult, though–I'm a 4-H person. 

My daughters did 4-H!!!  I LOVE the 4-H program!!  It was such a great addition to our homeschooling!

I actually get all warm and fuzzy over my jars of canned stuff… don't ask me why.  Canning is one of those things I derive satisfaction from, so I'm not looking to eliminate that.  However, I would like to feel that I'm making better use of my available growing season!

Oh I still do some canning, tomatoes, pickles, peaches (my favorite treat in January is to open a jar of home canned peaches, like opening a jar of sunshine!)  My canning time is at a premium–high time for canning is also high-time for harvesting and selling at the farmer's markets.  I still have the security of having the food, just in a different "format" ; )) I mostly quit freezing broccoli and brussel sprouts (they stay in the garden awaiting harvest all winter), quit canning/freezing carrots, etc, etc.  I was thrilled though to be able to have greens, especially spinach, and lettuces in some form all winter!  Lettuce is one produce that cannot be preserved!

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 18, 2011
8:04 am
BuckeyeGirl
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February 10, 2009
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@aprilejoi  Heat too early in the season is likely, though there are other possible reasons, that seems most likely IMO if you had that hot stretch in the spring like we did. ?Also, when did you plant them? Early is a relative term when it comes to cabbage quite honestly, depending on when you planted them they could still start to head up.

Located in N.E. Ohio
July 18, 2011
8:24 am
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
Member Since:
June 1, 2011
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aprilejoi said:

Oh Liz! What you say  makes so much sense to this garden newbie! I had trouble last fall and this spring with plants that just sdin't take off like the seed packet said.

Seed packets are so generalized they're notorious for getting it wrong!  I'd highly recommend going over to GardenWeb, and checking out their forums.  They have forums specifically for regions and many individual states. You can find what will grow and when for your area.

     BTW- Anyone have any thoughts why my spring cabbages are not setting heads? They are otherwise healthy, seed packet said early but …no heads!

Couple of reasons possibly, how close together are they planted? Overcrowding can force cabbage into just producing leaves and not heads.  Also, did they ever go through a dry spell?  This can slow their development into heads.

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 18, 2011
10:23 am
sparrowgrass
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 226
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August 6, 2010
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Hey, Kdubbs, I am a 4-H Specialist, too!!  I am in Missouri.

I just planted my broccoli seeds for a fall crop–I have never done this before.  The seedlings are up, will probably plant in 2 or 3 weeks.  I understand from a gardening friend that I will not have to worry about cabbage worms in the fall–they do eat the spring crop up!!

I will probably put some lettuce and spinach out, too, but I will wait til it cools off a bit.

I just haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister.
July 18, 2011
4:53 pm
aprilejoi
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 328
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January 9, 2011
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Liz and BuckeyeGirl- Some of my cabbages are from seed I started in May and some are direct sown. I didn't think they were too close together. There were some dry spells though. Even now we are at nearly 100 degrees. They are planted next to lettuce and I used a shade cloth in the spring. Will they eventually produce a head or should I compost them and replant for fall?

Thank you! And thank you for the GardenWeb suggestion. It looks like something I will learn much from.

July 18, 2011
4:58 pm
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
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June 1, 2011
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When in May did you start them, and what are the maturity dates?  Some of our cabbage varieties took forever to head up, closer towards the end of maturity/harvest dates.

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 18, 2011
7:02 pm
aprilejoi
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 328
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January 9, 2011
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I started Flat Dutch Late on March 13th in flats under lights in my house. I planted Copenhagen Market Early right in the garden in early May, maybe April, didn't record that one. They are spaced 1 foot apart and look wonderful. Except for not having an actual cabbage!…Yet?

   

July 18, 2011
10:32 pm
hershiesgirl
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 294
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August 24, 2010
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Your Extension should have publications  on veggies that are specific to your region. For years, they were 'in print' and you could get a pamphlet on just about anything. Now you should be able to access the Extension / University publications online.

Look for recommended varieties that are proven to do well in your area, and start with those.

Start here: http://extension.psu.edu/yard-…..able-herbs 

Good Luck! Jackie

July 19, 2011
10:41 am
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
Member Since:
June 1, 2011
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14

aprilejoi said:

I started Flat Dutch Late on March 13th in flats under lights in my house. I planted Copenhagen Market Early right in the garden in early May, maybe April, didn't record that one. They are spaced 1 foot apart and look wonderful. Except for not having an actual cabbage!…Yet?

   

The Flat Dutch has a 110 day til maturity date. This is actually a fall/early winter cabbage which may be why it hasn't headed up. I'd leave it in the ground.  It's probably heat-dormant and will head up as the weather cools. 

Copenhagen has a 100 day til maturity date, and is an early spring variety so it should have headed up already. It needs cool weather for most of it's growth so I suspect it has gone heat-dormant too.  It needs to be started about 5 weeks before your last frost date. This variety can take frost and even light freezes. 

So I'd just wait and see what happens.  Did you get both seed from the same source? 

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 19, 2011
10:47 am
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
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June 1, 2011
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15

April, here's a link you can use: http://www.extension.org/ask  This is from MSU so you'll be sure to get info that's right for your area! Wish all states' extension offered this!

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
July 19, 2011
5:13 pm
aprilejoi
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 328
Member Since:
January 9, 2011
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Thanks for your efforts Liz. This website is my favorite as so many of you have a tremendous amount of info that you are willing to share.  I have peeked at the MSU Extension website quite a bit, I thank you for reminding me to continue to use it.

     My cabbages are growing and are very healthy so I will take your advice and just wait…and watch!

     Sometimes , as a gardening newbie, I can get discouraged when something I plant  and fuss over fails to thrive. Last year it was bulbless garlic (yes, this year I pinched off the bloom) and this year I hope it's NOT the headless cabbage. Will I live long enough to get it right?

July 19, 2011
6:19 pm
Liz Pike
Mighty Chicken
Forum Posts: 152
Member Since:
June 1, 2011
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17

Gardening is definitely an adventure!!  Even after 20 years as an organic farmer (retired), and another 5 years operating a small garden to sell at a farmer's market, I'm still amazed and puzzled by things.  Diversity is a good thing in a garden!

Chocolate shrinks my clothes.
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