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8:43 am January 20, 2010
| BuckeyeGirl
| | N.E. Ohio | |
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| posts 3992 | |
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I don't ever use 3 Tbls with white flour! I use only 1 with white flour, 2 with half WW and half white, and the only time I use 3 is for all whole wheat or whole grain. That's me though, I'd love to hear what others do, baking bread is SO not an exact science!
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If tomatoes are a fruit, then isn’t ketchup technically a
smoothie?
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8:55 am January 20, 2010
| Pete
| | WV | |
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| posts 7875 | |
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If you like the texture of what you are getting, Cindy, I would keep doing what you are doing. The dough enhancer is to basically stabilize the gluten after the rise. The more gluten, the stiffer the dough structure will stay. The more whole wheat, the lesser is the ability of the dough to release the gluten in a form that will remain solid in structure during the cooking process.
The result of a less stable structure is a denser bread. Simply a matter of personal taste whether you prefer the lighter dough or a denser dough.
Interesting little thing on TV the other day. A bread making chef said that she always makes sure to stir in only one direction when making bread so that the strands of gluten are all being aligned in the same direction for a firmer structure in the final loaf. Not sure that is an issue in my kitchen, but that phenomena might explain why some recipes discourage kneading after the first rise. Guess it would depend upon whether you want those strands of gluten going in one direction or several.
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Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
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10:20 pm February 2, 2010
| Farmgirl wannabe
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| Mighty Chicken | posts 166 | |
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I have a Grandmother Bread question. I have been baking this bread weekly for sometime now and am always very pleased with the results. I have fun adding some different flours. Usually, half Best for Bread flour and half whole grain with 2Tbs. of Dough Enhancer. This week I decided to knead in some sunflower seeds. Wasn't sure how to go about it…decided on 1/4 cup (which now I know isn't enough for a loaf) and I added the seeds during the last 5 minutes of kneading.
My problem is that the seeds seem to have all worked their way toward the surface so my crust has sunflower seeds but not the bread. 
When and how is the best time to add seeds so they are incorporated into the bread?
Thanks for your help.
Sandra
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7:14 am February 3, 2010
| CindyP
| | Hart, MI | |
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| posts 7627 | 
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I'm not sure on this…..I would think they should incorporate all the way through.
Hopefully someone else has some input on this????!!!!!
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“Learn all you can from the mistakes of others. You won’t have time to make them all yourself.” ― Alfred Sheinwold
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9:04 am February 3, 2010
| BuckeyeGirl
| | N.E. Ohio | |
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| posts 3992 | |
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When I've added sunflower seeds to dough, I've done it right at the beginning. A few probably got a bit broken but not many that I ever noticed. I think they're small enough and smooth enough that they slip past the kneading action. It's been a number of years since I've done this, but I remember it coming out very well.
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If tomatoes are a fruit, then isn’t ketchup technically a
smoothie?
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5:37 pm February 3, 2010
| Farmgirl wannabe
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| Mighty Chicken | posts 166 | |
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Great, next time I will add them with the flour and just continue as regular. I knead by hand. The bread was very good, just not exactly what I wanted. Will try again next week. Thanks.
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2:41 pm February 21, 2010
| chickypez
| | Allen, TX | |
| Mighty Chicken | posts 208 | |
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I make my bread with half all purpose flour and half wheat flour. I do use egg and oil in it to make it fluffier, but I would like for it to be softer. I read somewhere that using milk instead of water will make it softer. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am thinking about trying it out tomorrow and replacing most of the water with milk.
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3:04 pm February 21, 2010
| CindyP
| | Hart, MI | |
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| posts 7627 | 
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When I use a dough enhancer when using wheat, it gets really soft and fluffy. I use 1/4 white, 3/4 wheat, but I don't use oil or egg. Somewhere in my mind, I'm thinking milk has to do with the crust…….not entirely sure on that point though………..
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“Learn all you can from the mistakes of others. You won’t have time to make them all yourself.” ― Alfred Sheinwold
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4:51 pm February 22, 2010
| chickypez
| | Allen, TX | |
| Mighty Chicken | posts 208 | |
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I know I should use dough enhancer, I've just never bothered to make any. Haha I really should try that. Anyway, I have 3 loaves of "milk experiment" bread rising, and they will go into the oven soon. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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5:23 pm February 22, 2010
| Pete
| | WV | |
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In my experience, using milk produces a more "refined" loaf. We generally prefer more rustic breads, so usually just use water for the liquid. But, for rolls or any time we want a smoother texture, I add milk. often just some powdered milk since we seldom have any bottled milk around.
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Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
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8:52 pm February 23, 2010
| BuckeyeGirl
| | N.E. Ohio | |
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| posts 3992 | |
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OK, I'm discouraged. I made some whole wheat loaves last week, they turned out gummy, my pizza dough a week ago turned out dry and 'blah', no character… and today I made some white loaves and they are also less than wonderful…. My yeast is proofing fine, these are all recipes I've had good luck with many times, I use dough enhancer with the WW loaves, (grandmother bread for the bread and a tried and true pizza crust dough for that)… I've had a poor loaf here and there, same as anyone, but three times in a row? What is wrong? Maybe I'll get new yeast just in case. 
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If tomatoes are a fruit, then isn’t ketchup technically a
smoothie?
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9:01 pm February 23, 2010
| CindyP
| | Hart, MI | |
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| posts 7627 | 
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I think it's the weather!! Is there a low pressure moving through????
I would think if the yeast is proofing fine, it wouldn't be the yeast though…………. I could see the WW bread and crust being different if they were out of the same bag of flour, but not on the white. What made the white not so great? texture? taste?
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“Learn all you can from the mistakes of others. You won’t have time to make them all yourself.” ― Alfred Sheinwold
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10:06 pm February 23, 2010
| Pete
| | WV | |
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| posts 7875 | |
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I'd vote with it being a weather issue as well. Unless maybe the oven thermostat is off.
Absolutely agree that if the yeast is proofing properly, then it is not the problem.
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Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
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10:13 pm February 23, 2010
| BuckeyeGirl
| | N.E. Ohio | |
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| posts 3992 | |
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Texture mostly. I'm not happy with the crust either. … you have a good point about the WW being from the same bag, that was the last of that bag so that's good. The white was better, just not great. I didn't use enhancer in it, I usually just us it for WW… weather? Maybe, things here have been unsettled.
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If tomatoes are a fruit, then isn’t ketchup technically a
smoothie?
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10:41 pm February 23, 2010
| Pete
| | WV | |
| Moderator
| posts 7875 | |
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We actually like loaves made when the humidity is higher best. I do try to add moisture in the oven in winter – usually a can or pan of water in the oven. Spraying water in the oven works well, but I still like to have that sustained moisture in there during the winter months.
Also, during winter especially, I like to keep the dough covered very tightly (as in having a moisture barrier) during the rise to forestall evaporation and resultant changing crust texture. We like crusty bread, but I do not like it being dried out before it gets into the oven.
Cannot remember where I read just recently to NOT open the oven door during cooking. Will try to remember just what effect it was said to have on the finished loaf. It seemed important, and not something I had ever heard before. Also, I have never paid any attention to opening the door at odd times, perhaps to add another pan of something.
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Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
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11:33 pm March 13, 2010
| LK
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| Mighty Chicken | posts 148 | |
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I don't think that it was mentioned here…I use the oven light in the oven for the warmth to rise my bread. It will also cut down on the drafts. I have also been using moistened aluminum foil to cover my whole grain bread dough, as it has been sticking to my tea towels. It is really hard to get that off!
I have read that if you wet your hands when mixing the whole grain dough, that it adds more moisture, will make the dough less tough and it will stick to your hands less. When you shape your dough, instead of using more flour, use water on your counter and on your hands. I have tried it and clean up is a lot easier! I have also been putting a pan of water below my bread as I bake it to make steam.
I also found an interesting site. I wanted to share something that I found as well as ask some questions…http://www.foodsubs.com/Misc.html
Lecithin can be made from not only soy (I need to avoid soy), but it can also be made from egg yolk. Do you think that adding an extra yolk to my bread would make a difference? I already have whole eggs added.
Look for Malt Powder on the site above too. It mentions that you can make your own (from barley) and it is good to use in breads. Now, how would you know if your homemade powder contained the enzymes that causes the bread to rise? That is what I am most interested in.
I would like to discover the old way of getting whole grain bread to rise. The ladies and men of old did not have access to what we have now (dough enhancer mixes…not against them, but…), I want to know their secret. It is my mission! lol! Does anyone know Amish or Old Time Mennonites who might bake whole grain breads without the use of dough enhancers, etc., still do it a very old, traditional way and get breads that rise well? I plan on asking some one day, if we ever get out their direction.
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6:05 am March 14, 2010
| Suzanne McMinn
| | Sassafras Farm in Roane County, WV | |
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I don't know, LK, the Amish people around here SELL dough enhancer, LOL. (And kinda expensively, too, which is why I wanted to make my own mix.) I think that really in the old days they just weren't that concerned if their bread wasn't all tall and pretty. Which is not to say they weren't better with their techniques than we are! But, I think our concerns are more aesthetic than theirs were.
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8:37 am March 14, 2010
| CindyP
| | Hart, MI | |
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| posts 7627 | 
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If you break down what is in the enhancer, and use it's natural form, I'm sure that's what was used in "the old days". And remember, their flours were probably different, too, unless you're using hand ground flours only. I find that different brands of whole wheat flour act differently. Whole wheat just isn't whole wheat. I've found some hand ground whole wheat flour and it gave me such a beautiful loaf, repeatedly. With the flours from the store, I could not get a good loaf repeatedly. I was about to give up on whole grain flours!
I did some research on the malt powder, too. Very interesting! Depending on the heat you use to dry the sprouts determines if you have live enzymes or not. If you dry at too high of a heat, you will kill the enzymes. Here's a link I found with the most direct instructions. You can use either barley or wheat. All of the pages I found were basically the same. I did find that "more is NOT better!" If you use too much malt powder in a loaf, it will get the yeast working too fast and will kill it.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/no…..tatic-malt
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“Learn all you can from the mistakes of others. You won’t have time to make them all yourself.” ― Alfred Sheinwold
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4:52 pm April 19, 2010
| LK
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| Mighty Chicken | posts 148 | |
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I have found a recipe that calls for orange juice at the same ratio as the milk and water. I bet the recipe using orange juice could be interesting.
We are using our own brand of whole grain wheat flour. We bought organic hard red wheat from a neighbor and then ground it ourselves. I have heard two different ideas why some wheat rises better than others but I can't remember them at the moment. If and when I do, I will post them. Maybe my husband remembers. He worked for a seed grower for many years, so he retains that kind of stuff, whereas I don't always.
I have made and used the diastatic malt with wheat. I don't have any barley at the moment, but would like to try it, and compare the two. Barley is supposed to be the most used in breads. It is pretty easy and I was able to dry it at a very low temperature, but it sure didn't want to go through our grinder very easily.
Without any other enhancers, it did a very good job. I am still in the experimental phase with it, but am pleased it as the bread appears to rise fine. What I am finding so far is that I am getting some big bubbles here or there. I have seen this in one of my four loaves today. I will let you know how the other 3 turned out later. The flavor is good, though.
Since the malt works on starches and converts them to sugars, I would like to try using potato water in place of my water. I could have done that today, but forgot that I had some in the fridge! I will try it out next time. I am not sure if this might give me more or larger bubbles or give a heavier bread in the end when using the malt. Does anyone know?
I found that I needed to knead more too. I read somewhere that it should be 7-10 minutes the first time, and a little less the second time before you shape the loaves. I guess that I have been neglecting a good knead lately.
I have been putting it in the oven with the light on, and I put all of my cast iron in too, to help hold a nice even heat. It works wonders.
A side note to the diastatic malt…if you use it mixed with milk powder, you get malt flavor like what you would use in milk shakes, I understand. I love malted milk things!
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5:07 pm April 19, 2010
| CindyP
| | Hart, MI | |
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| posts 7627 | 
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I would think the potato water would make a fluffier loaf, though it may change the texture. Be careful of using too old of potato water, though, the starches will turn to sugars pretty quickly, so it won't work in the bread as intended.
When I make wheat bread, it always seems to need a much longer knead time……it needs that extra time to break up the gluten.
Have you used whey in your whole grain breads? I'm just amazed in the difference of using it!
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“Learn all you can from the mistakes of others. You won’t have time to make them all yourself.” ― Alfred Sheinwold
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