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Bread falls after raising!
November 17, 2011
10:58 am
Frankie
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I am having problems with my bread falling after it has risen.  I rise it in the oven. I heat the oven to like 120 degrees and then shut it off and let the bread rise in it for the second rise. When I remove it to preheat the oven it always falls.  I have tried preheating with the bread left in there and it also falls.  My yeast is new, I use an enhancer.  I have exhausted what I know but I sure would like my bread to look like some of the pictures on this website.  All and any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

November 17, 2011
12:10 pm
BuckeyeGirl
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My opinion is you're letting it rise too high.  Second rise should just be a gentle rise, because then it has to rise more while baking, if the rise is too high it can't sustain it's shape and so it flops.

Hopefully other bakers will speak up with other thoughts.  That's just my opinion and I'm only an ok baker, not any kind of expert.

Located in N.E. Ohio
November 17, 2011
12:23 pm
MrsFuzz
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I agree with BEG.  This is typically the culprit for bread that falls.  Believe it or not, it might be better to let it rise on the counter at 70 degrees, where it will rise slower and you can keep an eye on it.  It depends what altitude you're at, too.  At higher altitudes (like me at a mile high), the atmospheric pressure is lower, offering less resistance to the dough, resulting in a faster rise.  This applies to both rises, not just the second.  I would start checking your dough at 1/2 the given rise time, then check it every 15 minutes after that.  Dough is fully risen when you can lightly dent the surface of the dough with your finger, and the dent doesn't spring back.  HTH!

Wearing cowboy boots does not make one an agriculturist….Having at least 3 varieties of poop on them does.
November 17, 2011
1:00 pm
Ross
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The only reason to place bread in a very warm place to rise is because you are in a hurry. I always let bread rise in the kitchen on the table. For the first rise it is ready to shape when you can lift the bowl a couple of inches and drop it and the dough collapses. For the second rise allow it to double in size or maybe just a bit more and then bake it putting it into a cold oven just adds a few minutes to the baking time you still get a good "oven spring" and a nice loaf . If you get tearing of the loaf it hasn't risen enough and if it collapses it was too light.

November 17, 2011
5:07 pm
Kat43082
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Looks like this one is covered.  yes I agree, your bread is over proofed.   As MrsFuzzy the best indicator is to touch it.   

Good Luck on your next batch. 

November 17, 2011
5:16 pm
Ross
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There is a remedy if it falls before you bake it. Just dump it out of the pan and reshape it and let it rise again. Making bread is very rewarding and even a disappointing loaf is still good tasting.  I have made bread with very old flour and had it turn out terrible and the people that didn't get home made bread but rarely thought it was still wonderful.

November 17, 2011
8:32 pm
MrsFuzz
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I agree, Ross.  Usually, even if it doesn't look pretty, it tastes great.  And, the more rises you give it, the more flavor the bread will have (think about how long sourdough rises).

Wearing cowboy boots does not make one an agriculturist….Having at least 3 varieties of poop on them does.
November 17, 2011
8:54 pm
Ross
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I made bread yesterday. I started the ferment with the whole wheat flour wednesday night with 12 ounces of flour and 12 ounces of water and a pinch of yeast. Just after noon on thursday i mixed the dough  using ap white flour, water, yeast and salt. My flour was cold from the fridge and it took until about 7 pm before the dough was ready to shape and almost 10 pm before it was oven ready. But it finsihed very nicely with excellant flavor.

November 18, 2011
2:24 am
laur
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January 31, 2011
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  What great advice Genius Bread Bakers !!!

 

     And I concur,  too long a rising,  or too FAST a rising due to heat,

  Because I have the cozy cave of a dehydrator,  a saucer of warm water and 100- 105  temp in there can raise 4 loaves  ( I usually do three and a pan of rolls. )   This way,  the oven can heat up w/o moving the bread 2ce.   Before Deb the Dehydrator (  christened for our own Ms. Deb)   ,  I used the dishwasher (  emptied)  that I had put a few metal cups of really warm water in to heat it up.  My house is chilly in the winter !

 

  and I have forgotten and had some hot air dough balloons in there…so I punch down and start over..just like our own Ross does !  and that genius Mrs Fuzzlewuzzle.  How i miss that girl !

  sigh,  my momma always told me to hang around smart people…

 laur

 

November 18, 2011
12:45 pm
Frankie
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Thanks everyone for the great advice!! I still don't understand how some of the pictures show bread that is so high above the pan and looks awesome.  I will try doing as all of you suggest and let you know how it works out wish me luck and thanks again for the quick replies!!

November 18, 2011
1:06 pm
Ross
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Frankie, sometimes we just get it all to come out right and then we take pictures. If it will help we can also post pictures of our disasters.  A friend once asked me how I made such prefect pinwheel cookies. I said it was easy, I make six dozen and pick out a dozen and a half that look best.

I have time because I am self employed and am thus able to do my cooking on my schedule and not someone else's. Bread will rise in a 65 degree kitchen but it is very slow. When I am in a hurry for putting bread on the table I double the yeast and  keep the dough warm. I have even greased a big plastic bag and placed the dough in that and then into a sink full of warm water. It is fast but it makes very plain bread. A cool rise makes much more tasty bread.

November 18, 2011
4:24 pm
Frankie
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November 10, 2011
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All

Ok cinnamon swirl bread in the oven and so far it has not fallen….Keeping my fingers crossed. It was so nice to be offered so much great advice.  Ross I am really appreciated what said. The picture that had me was a picture of cinnamon swirl bread, which everyone loves.  Here is the link to it and you will see what I mean.  http://chickensintheroad.com/c…..irl-bread/

 

Thanks again everyone!!

November 18, 2011
4:57 pm
Frankie
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YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My bread is as pretty as a picture!! It worked.  Oh and P.S I use half wheat and half white flour and 1tbls of dough enhancer when I make mine..   shroomshroomshroomshroomshroomshroom

November 18, 2011
6:12 pm
rileysmom
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Man,  I just tried a new rye bread recipe and I sure wish I had seen Ross' advice!  It was kinda wet dough and didn't rise well.  I could have punched it down and tried another rise…… oh well, it will make good croutons (I hope!). 

November 18, 2011
6:42 pm
MrsFuzz
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Hooray, Frankie!  Glad you had a success.  :)

One more thing I wanted to add about a high rise…What size loaf pan you use makes a huge difference.  If I use a 1 lb loaf pan for Grandmother Bread, I get a much higher, rounder loaf than if I use a 1 1/2 lb loaf pan.  So you can also tweak the appearance of your bread loaf that way.  I prefer using the larger pan, personally, so the bread is more uniformly shaped, instead of looking like a mushroom.

Wearing cowboy boots does not make one an agriculturist….Having at least 3 varieties of poop on them does.
November 18, 2011
6:52 pm
BuckeyeGirl
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So glad it turned out for you Frankie!  Hopefully all this will give you an idea of how to figure out things from now on.  Slow is good!!! 

I bet it tastes absolutely fantastic!!!!!!  YUM!

Located in N.E. Ohio
November 18, 2011
7:46 pm
Ross
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As most people here know I weigh almost everything . The size of the pan determines the weight of the bread that makes a nice loaf. I find the a 4x8 pan works very well for between one pound six ounces and one pound  eight ounces. Larger loaves than that require a larger pan. Lately I have been making small round loaves of slightly less than a pound and baking three to a sheet pan. These fit our rate of use. They make small sandwiches and nice size toast and jelly.

November 19, 2011
6:15 am
aprilejoi
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I have yet to buy a kitchen scale but…its on my radar!  My bread also falls during the second rise. Deflates like a sad balloon if I try to give it the finger-push test. I read the other threads on this subject , adjusted the temp of the water (Ross said 'like baby bath water'!) and that made a big diffence. But the bread has still been heavy. The quintessential brick of bread.  Luckily, I married a man who so loves homemade bread he even raves about bad homemade bread.

     I have been using the kitchenaid for 90 % of the process but I knead a bit by hand before each rise. that also improved the rise and the texture.  I am still pining for that ever elusive dome topped, even textured loaf of bread.

     I know, I know. A scale is in my future… But am I up for the math?

November 19, 2011
10:23 am
Ross
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The math is easy. The next time you make bread try this: Put all of the flour for the recipe in a bowl, measure the liquidand pour that into a hollow place in the mass of flour. Next sprinkle on the yeast and give it a moment to wet out then add the salt, sugar, fat if you use it and with a whisk mix the center puddle with the flour until it is like a pancake batter. Then rinse the whisk and pick up your wooden spoon and mix just until everything is pretty much moistened. Now STOP and cover the dough with some plastic and leave it alone for a half hour.  When you come back to it, knead it for about five minutes in the bowl . Then dust it with a little flour and and shape it into a ball  and pour a tablespoon of oil around it and roll it around to spread the oil. Cover it with the plastic again and leave it there until it starts showing bubbles under the plastic and when you thump the bowl the dough collapses.  Now you flour the table and dump the dough out and cut it into as many pieces as you want loaves. Push them out of the way and shape each one  and  place it in the pan. When they are all shaped, wash the bowl the bread was mixed in and dry it with a clean towel( this slightly dampens the towel) and spread the towel over the bread and let it rise right there on the table until it feels nice to touch, kind of springy, very smooth,  it will be wrapped in a veil of gluten at this point almost like a skin. You will be able to feel the changes from very firm to almost too soft as the dough rises. But you must touch the bread and learn how it feels during the changes that take place .

This is a very short video of my keading method. http://s1112.photobucket.com/a…..ew0006.mp4http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k482/nansssor/th_2011_0903cardoldcameranew0006.jpg

November 19, 2011
1:53 pm
MrsFuzz
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Kneading as a part of bread baking is often given top billing in regards to importance for success.  Kneading the dough helps develop and distribute gluten, which gives the bread its structure.  The problem with kneading is that it's totally subjective.  Too short, and your bread doesn't do well, too long, and the same thing happens.  Finding the sweet spot takes time and experience and lots of less-optimal loaves of bread.  One way to help take the guess work out of kneading is to…Not knead.  Yes, I know it sounds crazy.  But instead of kneading our bread, we're going to fold it. (Google bread folding for a bunch of information on the subject.)  Mix your dough as usual, and knead it just until it comes together, one or two minutes (you can do this in your KA, as long as you use a low speed).  Now put your dough in the oiled bowl, and cover it and put it wherever you want to let it rise.  Set your timer for 30 minutes.  When the time is up, take your dough out, and press it gently into a rough rectangle, about 1" thick.  Fold the left third over, then the right third over the left (like a legal sized letter).  Rotate 90 degrees, and do the same.  Put it back in the bowl again.  Do this every 30 minutes for the duration of your first rise. Don't do this for the second, third rises.  I promise, it works, giving you a smooth, even dough that hasn't been over kneaded!  :)

Wearing cowboy boots does not make one an agriculturist….Having at least 3 varieties of poop on them does.
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