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2:20 pm
October 7, 2010
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I have made the farmhouse cheddar two times now and every time i make it, i have to thown it out because all i get is sour milk cheese, taste awful. What am i doing wrong??? We also made a hot pepper cheese which doesn't have a sour milk taste, but it's not like cheese, i just don't know what's wrong. We follow it, step by step and it just doesn't work. please help, i'm ready to give up…..thanks Barb
5:03 pm
February 8, 2009
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What steps are you following, can you write down here, what exactly you are doing?
6:29 pm
October 31, 2010
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Yes – please describe your process. And…are you aging before tasting or does it tast sour just after making?
Hopefully we can help if you give us some details!
8:14 pm
October 7, 2010
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I don't have it wrote down, i always go to this website and follow the steps just like it says, then we put it in our press, which we also made the same press, that's on this website. then once we take it out of the press, we put it on a board and keep turning it to air dry for 3 or 4 days then we use string and dip it in our wax and hang it from the string, then we put it in the closet in a cold bedroom. and then we left it in there to about 6 to 8 weeks. and it was awful. Now the only thing different that we do, is cut everything in half, we only use 1 gallon of milk , so we cut the other things in half. We use Liquid Animal Rennet and the Mesophilic. And whatever esle, i thinking there is something else. I don't know what i'm doing wrong. Thanks Barb
8:23 pm
December 28, 2008
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That's what they needed to know, Barb – that you are using Suzanne's recipe and process. I'll let the cheesemakers give you their opinions about what might be going wrong with your cheese.
But, I will also share with you that I have to print things like recipes and directions so that I have a hard copy to follow. Others do just fine following along on the computer screen, but that just doesn't work for me because I tend to leave things out when I try that. Just a thought. It may not apply to you at all, so disregard if it doesn't help.
Good luck with your cheesemaking!
9:22 pm
October 31, 2010
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Okay, now I have a few more questions for you.
-What kind of milk are you using…raw or store bought?
-Are you using a purchased mesophillic culture or something else for culturing?
-When you put your cheese in the closet, do you turn it at least 2x a day for the first 3 or so weeks, then once daily after that?
-When you press, what size mold are you using (diameter) and what weight?
-If you have any photos that would be really helpful too!
-Can you include for me a link to the recipe page (just get it in your browser and copy the address by selecting the link in the top of your browser, hit "cntl&C" to copy, then come to the comment page here and hit "cntl&v" to paste it into the comment.)
I may be away from my computer for a bit, but once I have that information I may have some ideas for you.
9:24 pm
October 31, 2010
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Whoops – another question:
-What temp is the closet?
9:51 pm
October 7, 2010
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http://chickensintheroad.com/c…..e-cheddar/, i use raw goat's milk. i purchased my mesophillic from the New England Cheesemaking Company. When i put the cheese in the closet, it's been waxed and the wax is hard, i didn't think i had to turn the cheese anymore at that point, do I?. We built the same kind of press as the one on chicken's in the road. Our's is made of a 4" PVC pipe. We have 2 8lb weights and 3 15lb weights that we use. We start off with one and end up with all of them on it. Thanks Barb
11:02 pm
February 8, 2009
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Of course it is guessing, but do you press heavy enough? is it nice and firm when you take it out the press?
I assume you use CLEAN utensils, that is very important also and last but not least…yes you have to keep turning the cheese.
This to make sure your cheese ripens evenly, if you don't the moisture and fat will go to the bottom and beside the fact that your cheese can get a weird shape, it will not ripe properly.
11:10 pm
September 19, 2010
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I have only been making hard cheese for about 6 months, so am not an expert. But I wonder if the goat milk could be part of your problem. The New England cheese book says that goat's milk curd is softer than cow's milk curd so it needs to be treated gently. After cutting the curd, you may need to let the cubes settle for 10 minutes to allow them to firm up enough to begin the cooking process. They also recommend using calcium chloride for making hard cheeses with goat's milk.
To use calcium chloride for one gallon of milk, dilute 1/4 tsp calcium chloride in 1/4 cup cool, non-chlorinated water. Add it to the milk mixture when you begin heating the milk. After adding the rennet, alllow the milk to set 3 to 5 minutes longer than usual before cutting the curds.
If your goats had been given any antibiotics, that could have affected the ability of the milk to set up.
You might have problems if you used any chlorinated water. Make sure your water for diluting rennet (and calcium chloride, if using) is non-chlorinated and cool.
You do need to keep turning your cheese every couple of weeks at least once you get past the turning daily part. I have been turning mine weekly.
The cheesemaking experts here might have some more ideas. Good luck!
11:19 pm
September 19, 2010
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BTW, the New England cheese book does have a stirred curd cheddar recipe specifically for goat's milk. I'm not sure whether providing just one recipe from the book falls within the fair use exception or is a copyright violation. Since I want to be careful to respect intellectual property rights, I am not reproducing the recipe here. But you might like to look into it. If you don't want to buy the book, your local library might have it.
7:05 am
May 14, 2005
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The NEC regular stirred-curd cheddar is for both cow and goat milk, same recipe, though usually when using goat milk, a lot of recipes will instruct a slight temperature difference for goat milk (a few degrees lower). They also have a specific goat milk stirred-curd cheddar that is different. For the farmhouse cheddar, for goat milk, instead of 90 degrees, it's 85. (For adding the starter and the rennet.)
I'll be doing stirred-curd cheddar as my recipe of the month in March (the regular recipe that can be used for both cow and goat milk), so will be posting the recipe then. (I post their recipes with their permission as part of the cheese challenge posts/giveaways.)
I'm not sure what all experience you have making cheese–soft cheeses are a good way to start, like chevre would be great if you need a quick fix with your goat milk to get you encouraged again! It is easy to make cheese–but difficult to make good cheese. It's worth keeping at it. I've made a lot of bad cheese. Now I make better cheese. It's like anything–practice makes perfect. Be willing to make some bad cheese on your way to great cheese.
2:46 pm
January 26, 2010
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It's hard to diagnose the problem from a distance without a lot of very specific detail about every step you took. However, the first thing that came to mind at your description of the flavor was contamination. It's really easy to pick up wild yeasts or other contaminants that affect the cheese. Next time you make cheese, you might take extra care with your sterilization process for all your utensils, the press, cheesecloth, etc. Some other tips that have helped me improve my results through the years —-
1. Kick the housepets out of the kitchen and curing area
2. No yeast breads made for 24-36 hours before making cheese — once you've salted the rind there's less likelihood of the cheese picking up any yeast organisms from the air or surfaces
3. Make the entrance nearest the kitchen a 'clean entrance.' A good two weeks before cheesemaking season begins here at the farm, we start the routine and keep the barn boots, clothes, and work gear at the other door. Even the milk bucket gets wiped down on the way in. The entire kitchen gets a good scrubbing & disinfection.
4. Immediately before cheesemaking, all work surfaces should be cleaned and disinfected. Same with all tools & supplies. Not the day before or a couple hours before. Immediately before use. That includes every tiny seam and crevice of everything you use, including the press, the weights, and pay particular attention to any wooden parts.
5. If you're not getting good results with raw milk, try pasturized milk. Also, take a good hard look at your milking area, procedures, straining, etc. Look for any possible point of contamination and address it – how well your milking pail is cleaned and sterilized, how you're straining the milk, if your filters are stored in a way that prevents any possible contamination, how you're cleaning the udder before milking, etc. There are so many ways for yeasts and other contaminants to enter the process.
6. It helps to keep a notebook of each attempt. Over time, you can spot patterns — i.e. I have more problems in mid-summer with contamination and even turn off all the fans so there's less air, dust motes, and whatever little ickies are in the dust being stirred around. During mid-winter, I have more trouble with soft, delicate curds and generally add calcium chloride to adjust for that.
Sounds like a lot of trouble, but really, it's not so bad after the first couple of times. You get used to it and like Suzanne said, you get better with practice.
3:01 pm
October 31, 2010
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Here are a few thoughts that I hope may be useful.
-The rule of thumb when making cheese w/goat's milk is to lower the temperature by 5 degrees for each step. Of course, if you're following a recipe made for goat milk don't change it (or add 5 degrees if you use a goat cheese recipe and use cow milk!) I DON'T THINK THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM but thought I'd just give you that for future reference.
-When it comes to sour cheese there are several reasons this happens but my experience has been that excess whey left in the cheese is the most common culpret. Having too much whey can happen for a few different reasons. Most common is that during the "cooking" process the temperature has been allowed to raise too quickly. When this happens, the curds get a skin on them that doesn't allow for the whey to excape properly during pressing.
It can be a little tricky, but when raising the temperature it needs to come up gradually and no more than a degree for every 5 min. or so. To accomplish that I sometimes need to remove the pot from the water bath and to keep the temp from rising too quickly, then return it to the bath in appropriate time. During the "cooking" time, you need to stir the curds gently every so often to keep them from matting together prematurely. The recipe you are following should state that.
As you continue to make cheese, you will be able to tell if you have a problem with "sealed curds" as they feel a bit different than they should. That just takes some experience and trial and error.
I often encourage people who are new to cheesemaking to try a "Queso Fresco" recipe for several times. The process for making it is very similar to aged cheeses but it does not require aging or waxing. This can be useful so that you get a feel for what the curds should be like before trying to age and finding out something was wrong after such a long time. If you have a problem with a Queso fresco, such as sealed curds, etc., it doesn't have the chance to sour like it does in an aged cheese. This will allow you to make some mistakes and learn the process without waiting so long to know if there was a problem. Even if the curds aren't quite right, you can still eat it and enjoy it- or use it in cooking in place of mozzerella, etc.! After making these several times and you get the hang of how it's supposed to go, then you can move on to one of the aged cheeses. If you'd like a recipe, let me know and I'll send you one by pm.
[A note...I, like Suzanne, did A LOT of trial and error before I was able to get consistent results. It's definitely worth the trial and error! I actually did what I'm encouraging you to do - made LOTS of Queso Fresco before I moved on to the aged cheeses. I'm really glad I did as it allowed me to work out the bugs before I waited with anticipation for a great aged cheese only to find that it was bad. So far, I've never had an aged cheese turn out bad but that's likely because I did all my trial and error on Queso Fresci!]
-Another reason for souring is that you DO need to continue to turn the cheese regularly during the aging process. As flatlander said above, if you don't turn the cheese the moisture inside will all go to the bottom causing uneven ripening AND can also cause a sour flavor. As a a rule, I turn a cheese at least morning and evening for the first 3 weeks. After that I turn at least 1x a day, but twice daily won't hurt it if you think of it. As simple as this sounds, it can make a HUGE difference in how your cheese turns out.
-Be sure to follow the recommended temperature for aging your cheese. If the temp is too high or low, it changes the culture's ability to age at the proper rate causing it to either age too quickly or more slowly. Sometimes just a longer aging period will help things if the temp. is too low.
I really want to state again that I am almost sure your problem is too much whey being left in the cheese. All that being said, however, here are some other reasons a cheese can come out sour:
- Too much starter culture.
- Milk pre-ripened too long before adding rennet.
- Leaving curds in whey too long after cutting.
- Insufficient pressing resulting in excess whey left in cheese.
I think I'd concentrate on being sure the curds aren't getting sealed … learning how they should look and feel … before worrying about anything else. And…don't give up!!! Once you get it you'll be glad you did! 
If you'd like to try the Queso Fresco, let me know and i'll send you a recipe. Hope this was helpful and not too long-winded. 
3:03 pm
October 31, 2010
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PS: Most of the recommendations for having clean kitchen and utensils are pertinent to avoiding YEAST getting in the cheese. This will cause some funky cheese, but it doesn't usually cause the cheese to be sour as you are describing.
3:42 pm
January 26, 2010
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I'll second the recommendation to practice with Queso Fresco. Leah's Mom's suggestions are excellent. I didn't think about the whey issue because that tastes more to me like an unpleasantly off sharp flavor than sour. That's likely a personal taste buds thing.
Just to be clear — it's not just yeast. Lots of other beasties floating around, too, particularly with animals on the premises and/or people who tend them walking through. Many affect the development of the cheese, so I've learned to take extra care to assure that the only live cultures in the cheese are the particular ones I want in there.
8:41 pm
October 31, 2010
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Whoops…didn't mean to sound like there aren't "wild" bacteria floating around too! 
I was just thinking in terms of the sour flavor…
When it comes to making cheese, I don't even use cloth dish towels in or around the process due to bacteria and yeast that are harbored in them and can get on your hands & equipment. I actually use only paper towels to dry my hands and equipment unless I have plain towels set aside only for the cheesemaking process that have been bleached and rinsed twice before drying and never used for anything else.
But…I digress!
I hope we haven't put you on overload, mothergoosefair! Please let us know when you try again and how things turn out!
10:03 pm
February 5, 2011
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Thanks for suggesting Queso fresco. I haven't tried that but love making mozerella and fromage blanc. I don't have the facilities to make aged cheese. At least not at this time. I do love the fromage with chives from my garden….have some in the fridge right now.
10:35 pm
October 31, 2010
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leandjean – I also make the fromage blanc – almost every week. We really like it too. I have flavored ours with a lot of different things like cayenne pepper & salt for a pepper spread, etc…. - I've even mixed mine w/ cocoa and honey for a quick "chocolate fix" that I can eat that's like having an "instant cheesecake"!
On the Queso Fresco, there are a lot of varying recipes out there but I make a recipe that is closest to the recipe in Ricki Carrol's book. I do mine just a little different… The main differences:
-I let it dry like a regular cheese before putting it in the fridge; meaning that I put it out at room temp to dry on a rack and turn at least 2x daily until it is "dry". Usually 1-3 days.
-After I put it in the fridge, I don't cut mine for at least 1 week. It really does taste better if I wait! (and the longer it goes, the better it tastes!) [Thanks to Fias Co Farm for the tip to wait a week!]
-When I put it in the fridge, I put it in glass (pyrex) with a plastic sealing lid and turn it over 2x day during that week of "aging". The container should be large enough to give some space around all sides. If it gets condensation inside, I wipe it out when I turn it. Some condensation is okay to keep the humidity up but you don't want it to be dripping on the cheese.
10:38 am
October 7, 2010
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yes, i would like the recipe to the Queso Fresco cheese, please, alot of good advise, we'll try the Queso Fresco a few times and then later maybe we'll try the farmhouse cheddar again. thank you everyone for your help and time. Barb
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